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    Participle/ gerund

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    Participle/ gerund
    Message from mohammad51 posted on 25-09-2018 at 23:12:06 (D | E | F)
    Hello
    Please could help me to answer this question ?
    We went riding yesterday.
    is the item ( riding ) gerund or participle ?
    Please this one also :
    We spent the whole day playing cards.
    Playing, is it a gerund or participle ?
    Please be kind and answer my questions.
    Thank you in advance.

    -------------------
    Edited by lucile83 on 25-09-2018 23:26



    Re: Participle/ gerund from traviskidd, posted on 26-09-2018 at 02:58:55 (D | E)
    Hello, a gerund is a noun. In your examples, "riding" and "playing" are not nouns.
    See you.



    Re: Participle/ gerund from mohammad51, posted on 26-09-2018 at 05:53:34 (D | E)
    Hello
    So if it is not a noun or acts as a noun what a part of speech is it traviskidd, is it a verb ?
    I think you need to review the grammar; gerund can come in three positions.
    1- before the main verb: e.g. Swimming takes a lot of energy. subject
    2- after the verb: e.g. Mr. Powell really enjoys swimming. object
    3- after the preposition : e.g. Mr. Powell feels fresh after swimming ( object of the preposition )
    I think that your idea if not comes at the beginning = not a noun ? Noun act as subject, object , a part of a complement etc...
    Moreover, the answer and the question is here in this page of grammar, but just to be more sure.
    Link

    10. We spent the whole day playing cards.
    10. Playing gerund, complement of the noun whole day.
    -----
    Where is gerondif ?
    ------
    We went riding yesterday. let me say this one is also a gerund it acts as adverb answers the question "How we went ?"
    We went riding horses , not on feet \ by feet



    Re: Participle/ gerund from gerondif, posted on 26-09-2018 at 08:35:21 (D | E)
    Hello.
    Go and come work that way.
    Go and help me, come and help me.
    ING is used after go when it is an individual sport practised outside.
    Go swimming, running, jogging,shopping...
    Go and play tennis, football, cards (a collective sport played on a closed ground)
    Now, a gerund is a verb turned into a noun and as such, it can accept adjectives.
    I like your elegant swimming.
    But in I went riding, riding can't take adjectives, so it is a present participle. I arrived there riding, I arrived there elegantly riding ( an adverb modifies a verb).



    Re: Participle/ gerund from mohammad51, posted on 26-09-2018 at 10:34:07 (D | E)
    Hello
    I thank you gerondif, you heard my voice and soon hurried to get me out of this trouble
    I thank you gerondif and I know you are a brilliant teacher, have long experienced in grammar.
    However, let me tell you something, "Many books and many authors make the grammar sense disgusted or refusal to read."
    I have at least 100 books of grammar of different authors, but at last, I return to my judging mind or to compare between this and that and get the extract.
    Here in this page I gave you its link down ... just examine:
    How to Use Go +Ing (the Gerund) to Describe Fun Activities:
    Describing leisure activities like your examples ( go swimming \ go running \ go hiking fishing etc....) and all as the page told are considered ( gerunds)
    So why go riding -Riding is not considered gerund ?
    Also I think such activity to do at a leisure time ( spare time ) for example, to ride a horse and go in a trip for countrysides.
    They said for " fun" in our free time and an example among the examples " go shopping" ?
    Link

    ------
    The matter which makes this grammar issue worse or complicated what is mentioned by the book " Oxford learners finder page 165"
    " we use go + active participle to talk about activities that we go out to do, especially leisure activates:
    I would love to go swimming.
    We went riding yesterday.
    Simon has gone fishing.
    Then said in the same page below the above-mentioned:
    " We use do the + gerund for some types of work, especially routine housework."
    I usually do the washing at the weekend.
    Someone comes in to the cleaning for us.
    if we compare between what suggested by Oxford's learners finder and the content of the above link , we see the different or by anyway the knowledge is not paralleled ( not equal) say not the same !
    ----
    The term " active participle" makes most the student confused. As said in the beginning under the title " Participles"
    The most common kinds of participle are the active participle, the past participle and the passive participle .
    Active participle : I fell asleep watching TV.
    We were taking a short break now.
    Past participle: I have watched all these videos.
    Passive participle: The job had taken a long time
    Student are confused what can the active participle refer to ?
    active not passive as any active tense, but as it mentioned under the main title of the classification , student consider it they mean " the participle itself" not gerund not anymore?
    ----
    I think what Oxford learner finder book does mean by " active participle" is any ing- form in active tenses, i.e. general term.

    gerondif, please I want you help me to get the last line correct as well as to review again all what I brought and discussed and don't forget the first example I mentioned in the first topic:
    We spent the whole day playing cards. Is " playing" gerund or participle? Say it loudly!
    Finally, I would thank you for your patience.



    Re: Participle/ gerund from mohammad51, posted on 26-09-2018 at 11:40:25 (D | E)
    hello
    Again something I want to add
    1- both present participle and gerund end in ( ing )
    2- The most difference between the participle and gerund usually tends to act as a noun while present participle tends to act as adjectives ( as for long we treat with the ing- adjectives and ed-adjectives.
    This story is boring. I feel worried while I read it.
    Also I noticed the gerund acts as a subject to start a sentence does the function of noun and if not a noun like,the gerund never acts as a subject. For present participles this function is not familiar.
    In one word as many study I did, " the main difference between gerund and participle, is the participle can do as an adjective while the gerund never be adjective." The gerund functions are : subject , object, and a part of complement.
    Thank to read my post and I hope you are going to suppor my ideas by any word or view, since you are native speakers and have knowledge more than me.



    Re: Participle/ gerund from gerondif, posted on 26-09-2018 at 14:23:41 (D | E)
    Hello
    We went riding yesterday : present participle.
    We spent the whole day playing cards. Present participle.
    I did my shopping yesterday. Gerund.
    I spent the whole day shopping. Present participle.



    Re: Participle/ gerund from mohammad51, posted on 26-09-2018 at 16:09:11 (D | E)
    Hello
    Thank you again
    Don't make me confused please
    You said ... go swimming \ go jogging \ running ... all are considered gerunds
    Here a copy of answer in your first reply just to discuss the matter we both.
    Go swimming, running, jogging,shopping...
    Go and play tennis, football, cards (a collective sport played on a closed ground)
    Now, a gerund is a verb turned into a noun and as such, it can accept adjectives.
    I like your elegant swimming.
    But in I went riding, riding can't take adjectives, so it is a present participle. I arrived there riding, I arrived there elegantly riding ( an adverb modifies a verb.

    -----1- first sentence ( 10. We spent the whole day playing cards).
    Regardless of what is mentioned, " Is that site wrong answer , which I brought my sentence from it ?
    Here the sentence and the answer supporting by a link :
    English Practice site \ grammar
    The question : 10. We spent the whole day playing cards.
    its answer ( already is answered )
    10. Playing gerund, complement of the noun whole day
    Link


    -------
    2- second sentence ( We went riding yesterday )
    Just one question, if all the activities the man does in a time of leisure according to the site that I brought some information from it and also Oxford recommends this, but ( went riding ) is not , i.e. not among all what we called the activities of leisure, is not considered an activity like these ? Here my question! In my consideration the last one is also similar ...... this is one.
    --
    You said not act as adjectives to be considered ( gerunds ) and I think you are wrong dear gerondif , please don't be angry but take it easy and let me explain my view :
    The one thing or the distinctive that can give us a good solution is to examine the item and to look whether it tends to act as a noun or not, and on this view I pay my regard to ( traviskidd) the first teacher who replied .... Yes his speech is rather correct and dependable .... Don't worry let's go again and examine both the ing - forms

    1- sentence one: Let me translate the word ( playing ) to any language and compare at least to my own ... I feel it is a noun so it is gerund but prepositional and sure it is the object of the preposition and sure again and again it is gerund 1000000000 % not participle because this is the manner of gerund how it used in the sentence as an object of a preposition

    2- sentence two ( We went riding yesterday ) yes riding here it is not a noun so it is a participle , it acts likely a verb or it has a sense of the verb ( derived ) = process or apparently looks like an adjective so it is 10000000 % = participle
    Thank you all to give the chance and time ... Read it again gerondif, to get it and I am sure you will get it as I got it.

    -------------------
    Edited by lucile83 on 26-09-2018 18:56
    No red or pink on the forum



    Re: Participle/ gerund from gerondif, posted on 26-09-2018 at 18:09:22 (D | E)
    Hello
    We spent the whole day nervously playing cards. You can see that nervously modifies a VERB, so playing is a verb in the present participle.

    It is a bit like :
    We spent half a day at the airport ( and we were) playing cards.

    And the question would be :
    What did you spend the whole day doing ?
    You are asking for a verb :
    I was playing tennis.
    I spent the whole day playing tennis .

    In your link, the man is wrong when he speaks of a gerund for go running.But the Oxford learner quotes are correct.



    Re: Participle/ gerund from mohammad51, posted on 26-09-2018 at 22:41:03 (D | E)
    Hello
    Thank you gerondif for your endless efforts.
    The matter that made me not satisfied first is due the site ( X) which I for long visited it. Indeed their answered quizzes helped me .. perhaps this time they did a mistake in grammar. Lastly I examined the ( ing form) become sure is not tending or acting as a noun. I think this idea which jumped later to my mind, is the master key in which someone can depend on. 1- If not acting as a noun or has not a similarly of a noun, it is not a gerund. 2- the ( ing-form playing) is likely a verb ( nonfinite) so it is a participle.
    We spent the whole day playing in cards



    Re: Participle/ gerund from traviskidd, posted on 27-09-2018 at 06:31:59 (D | E)
    Hello, you can tell whether a word is a noun by replacing it with a known noun and seeing whether the sentence still makes sense.

    "We talked about swimming." --> "We talked about water." (Yes)
    "I love your riding." --> "I love your house." (Yes)
    "Running is good for the body." --> "Milk is good for the body." (Yes)
    "We went riding." -/-> "We went juice." (No!)

    NB: Infinitives sometimes occupy the position of nouns ("I want to eat" --> "I want food"), but aren't really nouns ("I'm too tired to eat" -/-> "I'm too tired food").

    NB2: I should add that adverbs can indeed modify gerunds, for example "We talked about nervously playing cards."

    See you.



    Re: Participle/ gerund from mohammad51, posted on 29-09-2018 at 14:32:00 (D | E)
    Hello
    Thank you traviskidd
    indeed The many books I read and the much information I got here or there that which made me totally confused.
    Last book I read , said, the gerund can come on three positions:
    1- at the beginning before the verb 2- after the verb 3- after the preposition.
    As the gerund acts as a noun it can subject or object. ON the other hand participle is neither a subject or object but rather acts as an adjective, adverb or likely a verb ( nonfinite), thus all nonfinite ing forms are participle.
    Hearing a strange voice, I called the police. It means as soon as or after I heard the voice.
    ------
    However, to make a difference by depending on which ing form acts as a noun = gerund and which not = participle, is difficult since even the clever students can't make sure this ing is absolutely = noun ...... Although it is a good method , it is difficult.

    look to these examples and examine :

    1- After playing for an hour, he went home. Say participle , but it is not clear .. it can be a verb or noun , i.e. the process of playing.
    2- Playing is good for health. Here it is clear ( playing = noun acts as a subject), so it is gerund.
    3- He left the tap running. ? = makes it run = circling say a participle, but comes after the verb, thus the position is not a dependable rule.
    He went running. go sailing , go camping , go hiking , go swimming Many pages on internet consider the ing- form after go = gerund ,but wrong ... If you focus on these attributes are likely adverbs ( not nouns ) ... How he\ she goes ? Which activity ? Some wrongly consider nouns, therefore are gerunds.
    Indeed it is misery and such conflict blows away by wind as dusts.


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